Noread

[GTR_boy]

I have a suggestion for a new section on the checksumm forum.

Noread File Section.

We can publish files that tuners have set to noread, and that we have spent all day try to fixing, only to find it is a rip off a famous German tuning house's file, still with their copyright in the file.

Anyone else in?

Budgen has a bad day. thanks un-named tuner.

[lndshrk]

Why would you be trying to "fix" someone elses file?

If there is a problem - reload stock and start from there.

[dera]

I'm starting to think that NOREAD is used by tuners who dont want their work seen open, not because of the quality, but because the lack of it...

If someone who has the real skillz wants to protect their knowledge, there are better ways to block out read function via OBD...

[RS4biturbo]

I'm starting to think that NOREAD is used by tuners who dont want their work seen open, not because of the quality, but because the lack of it...

If someone who has the real skillz wants to protect their knowledge, there are better ways to block out read function via OBD...


True but not always, everything can be read ultimately... and don't ask how I know it...

[dera]

True but not always, everything can be read ultimately... and don't ask how I know it...
Of course. If processor is able to read the contents of the flash, then you can too, with a bit of effort.

Its just worth making it so difficult (I know you know what seed key mods etc mean...) so that its easier to make your own file than to steal the old one.

I've yet to meet a real tuner who actually is interested on reading other tuners files. Exchange of information is one thing, stealing information is another...

[GEZAME]

Hi,
Personally believe that the role NOREAD, be interesting only to block "ebay tuners" and similar tuners, interface with clone 30 euros.
Regards.

[dera]

Yep, but since there is a better way, why bother.

[GEZAME]

Hi,
Rigth, many this function does not require much effort or much knowledge.
All know that original jump several interfaces such protection.
Regards.

[dera]

So what could be better than to avoid all OBD read (and write in some cases) comms for any tools?

[RS4biturbo]

So what could be better than to avoid all OBD read (and write in some cases) comms for any tools?


The best way is to block OBD2 read/write, because cloned tools don't give a damn about NOREAD anyway. And people b|tching about not being able to read a "noread" file, sorry but it's 100 times easier to get the org file, flash it in and start from scratch if the previous tune was such a poor job, then there is no more b|tching about NOREAD. But of course, some people can't "tune" a car if they don't see what someone else has done before them, so they have to keep b|tching all the time :D

[custom-chips]

Noread is set automatically by WINOls if you have the proper checksum-dll and you do not unclick the option.

Anyway, like landshrk wrote, it is not the job to fix others work. Start at Original or direct with your own tuning. NOREAD means not NOWRITE ...

And, changing some other keys is also not always a propper way as you can get in some combination (especially if an atm is equipped) some nasty errors.

The most bad thing is, that you have less possibilites on older cars that every clone can read. On newer you can get yourself in trouble if you take too much care about copy-preventation.

[ATHbruno]

big problem I think is that CMD doesn't care about NOREAD , this would help a lot because a lot of these copy-tuners use CMD because it is the tool that can do most cars.....

[salex]

big problem I think is that CMD doesn't care about NOREAD , this would help a lot because a lot of these copy-tuners use CMD because it is the tool that can do most cars.....

+1

The problem is not copying a tuned file and offering it at discounted prices - which seems to be what most copyshop tuners are doing right now.

The real problem is that tuning tools have become readily available for all, at prices that would tempt anyone into buying them.

Noread, bdm protection etc is just a way of separating levels of tuners.
But not all tuning hardware companies seem to share the idea or the interest in the future of their market.

[GEZAME]

The best way is to block OBD2 read/write, because cloned tools don't give a damn about NOREAD anyway. And people b|tching about not being able to read a "noread" file, sorry but it's 100 times easier to get the org file, flash it in and start from scratch if the previous tune was such a poor job, then there is no more b|tching about NOREAD. But of course, some people can't "tune" a car if they don't see what someone else has done before them, so they have to keep b|tching all the time :D

Hi,
Completely agree with you.
Regards.

[ilanthai]

The best way is to block OBD2 read/write, because cloned tools don't give a damn about NOREAD anyway. And people b|tching about not being able to read a "noread" file, sorry but it's 100 times easier to get the org file, flash it in and start from scratch if the previous tune was such a poor job, then there is no more b|tching about NOREAD. But of course, some people can't "tune" a car if they don't see what someone else has done before them, so they have to keep b|tching all the time :D
+1

But ...why the Big company should implement NOREAD function,if it takes a lot of business without it????:mad:

[Wasptuning]

Block obd read/write and pour resin on the chip. Off course putting back the car to stock an be a problem after :-)

[CMD-Anto]

I'm starting to think that NOREAD is used by tuners who dont want their work seen open, not because of the quality, but because the lack of it...

If someone who has the real skillz wants to protect their knowledge, there are better ways to block out read function via OBD...

I agree with you, the better way is to block out the OBD read function, this will create some extra job for us... I mean lot of 27 37 errors will start to come to our support service but I think that this is a good solution to the problem.
Is in my opinion that the NOREAD can be easily workarounded by files' copiers, they use clones, some of them are hakers, lot of them use "eMule or similar" to daily download the last LOADER that launches and unlocks most of the common obd tools on the market. Loaders disable sw. protection and NOREAD function.
I think that the NOREAD could a disadvantage for honest tuners because sometime it's dangerous to flash the original file without taking a look at the current one.
...and if in the future Mr. Bosch or Mr. Siemens will start to use the NOREAD flag?!? ;)

[lndshrk]

Anto,

Sorry, I'm going to call bulls h i t here.

While NOREAD might have it's flaws.

There is only ONE reason why you don't support it.

Because it sells more of your tools to people who wish to steal other's work.

[CMD-Anto]

Anto,

Sorry, I'm going to call bulls h i t here.

While NOREAD might have it's flaws.

There is only ONE reason why you don't support it.

Because it sells more of your tools to people who wish to steal other's work.

Dear Jim,

you are free to think what you want, I can only say that I hope cmd tool has some other plus that attracts customers.
I agree with you that somebody could like the fact that we don't support the NOREAD feature.
Could you please estimate a percentage of our customers that do you think "wish to steal other's work" ? How many of our customers are "thieves" ? Do you really think that this percentage can change our economic condition? Do you really think that "thieves" can be stopped by a NOREAD ?
To implement the NOREAD feature is not a problem, I'm worried by the troubles that this can starts to create to the MASTER/SLAVE management, as soon as we will be able to find a solution we will take in consideration to implement it. Could be a good idea to download automatically the original file from the online database (we already do this with virtual reading) if the NOREAD has been encountered...don't know where we can find all the original files but let us brainstorming on this.

[kisslorand]

This time I agree 100% with Anto. NOREAD can create much more troubles than benefits. What next? What if people will cry for a NOWRITE function? Maybe CMD can create special build for those who would like their tool to have NOREAD and NOWRITE feature... :D
What if "Mr. Bosch or Mr. Siemens will start to use the NOREAD flag" and they start to use the flash for the ΙΜΜΟ?
P.S.: I wish CMD to spend their time on Mercedes EDC17 instead of NOREAD

[lndshrk]

Ya know,

It's really scary to me how little some "professionals" know - or get it.

(Well, really it is the hidden agendas that are so funny)

Bosch and Siemens have it easy to stop reading.

They simply set the regions that can be read via OBD.

They already do this in ALL code - it is simple to change the regions for them.

They do not need to put text of "NOREAD" :rolleyes:

Oh, and Kisslorand? They have been putting duckduckduckduck into the flash for years on
many cars - BMW for one.

[GEZAME]

Hi,
And what we do not steal (use as they wish to call or take) the work of manufacturers to read and use their files to be modified?...........
Regards.

[salex]

Exactly as Jim wrote, big companies like Bosch and Siemens don't need anybody's help ( NOREAD/NOWRITE/NOBRAIN/NOTEASE ) because they develop their own software. They lock what they want to and they can make our life as difficult as it gets. They are the masters of what they are doing and they are doing it as well as it can ever be done.

I am pretty sure they don't like our work or our methods. But keeping us outside the ECU is not the essence of their work (yet), that is why we can remap, too.

Answer me this: Poems are intellectual property. If you rewrite a poem, based on another one, and change its words, is that still covered by the law on intellectual property?

And to get back to the original subject, there is only one big reason for CMD not to use NOREAD, which was mentioned before.

Yes Anto, all of the copyshops I know of are your customers. That does not reduce the efficiency of your tool. It is a good tool. But without any concern for the future.
When you poison your market, you poison yourself (Specially true with dealers and slaves).

[dera]

Well, if you really have the skillz, just make your files uncopyable.

Only novices require NOREAD for that. Thats why I think CMD is not to blame.

CMD would be a problem if they'd sell tools for 250EUR + VAT. Since their tools cost an arm and a leg, its not a real problem to anyone. No random ebayer decides "yes, I'm going to pay 6000EUR for a tool so perhaps I one day make money copying other peoples files".

[GEZAME]

Hi,
Exactly, the problem if someone get this cloning tool.
Regards.

[ilanthai]

Hi,
Exactly, the problem if someone get this cloning tool.
Regards.


If????
Only " IF " ???
Wrong sentence : The problem is that they copy the entire tool"

The real problem is that in my opinion all Big Company should have to spend much money in copy sofwtare protection,and moreover should have a bigger lawyer staff against the incredible situation we are living.

[pyankura]

Summarizing or rewording is plagiarizing! In other words "stealing" someone elses intellectual property.
We use CMD, my partner has the MASTER and I have the SLAVE. From what I read this is the most reliable and stable tool on the market for the money. We did not buy this tool for the ability to read others work! If we find others work in there. We disregard (delete after read) and start with ORI. The way we think of it is if someone is already tuned and they want our's. Either they drove similar car as their's with our software or heard about it. CMD is a great company and even better support. I am in the U.S. and get support late on the weekends.
Over here most people will not let just anyone fool with their car. That is why I think that it is not a big problem over here, yet!
I still hate with passion those REVO/APR trials! Those guy's really monkey wrench the whole program.




Exactly as Jim wrote, big companies like Bosch and Siemens don't need anybody's help ( NOREAD/NOWRITE/NOBRAIN/NOTEASE ) because they develop their own software. They lock what they want to and they can make our life as difficult as it gets. They are the masters of what they are doing and they are doing it as well as it can ever be done.

I am pretty sure they don't like our work or our methods. But keeping us outside the ECU is not the essence of their work (yet), that is why we can remap, too.

Answer me this: Poems are intellectual property. If you rewrite a poem, based on another one, and change its words, is that still covered by the law on intellectual property?

And to get back to the original subject, there is only one big reason for CMD not to use NOREAD, which was mentioned before.

Yes Anto, all of the copyshops I know of are your customers. That does not reduce the efficiency of your tool. It is a good tool. But without any concern for the future.
When you poison your market, you poison yourself (Specially true with dealers and slaves).