The definitive Advanced Area Thread / Poll

[admin]

Every one of you are waiting for this area to be created. There are lots of different thoughts about how should it be implemented. The main issue is if users should pay or should be invited.

The invitation process could limit access to valuable people. The payment process could have some problems too.

I need you to give your oppinion (again) and to vote for the solution you think it's better.

[EDC15]

Hi,

in my opinion, access should not be given for money nor by invitation.

As there are many assholes on this planet who only grap information and you never get something back but a kick in your ass, or even bigger assholes who tell everybody your stories they meet at the baker, it would be nice if there could be an area for people who are willing to share information.

How to check someones intention? I do not know.

Best regards, Rainer

[ecu_flash]

There is no way to answer this question...

i guess the democratic way of the poll will give an answer

[Philip]

What is promotion? You could make a hidden forum. A new person asking what button on forged winols makes tuned files would never know. Also a library of information similar to ORIdb would be a good idea. I am sure i have some other pdf's of information/books that have not been seen on here before. Alos this would be better to be kept within friends

[admin]

promotion is automatically give access to the user based on the number of posts, reputation level or number of days registered.

[vwmike]

I voted for promotion simply because an invitation only sort of place means there is potential for it just being a cool guys club nobody gets into. A paid entrance proves nothing as anyone can pay. Whether or not they'd use that information responsibly is another matter.

[norchip.co.uk]

I dont think invitation is the way to go as already said it will end up a boys club.

Pay money again not sure although i would be happy to pay.

Promotion suits me if i goes on lenght of service as at the moment i dont have much to contribute. I am sure i will get there though.

[turborabbit]

Althought i voted for payed subscription, i thought again and think that solution must be "a bit of everything".

For example:

200messages + 3 months+ 2 votes from members
or
100 messages + 4 months + 5 votes
or
50 messages + 5 months + 10 votes

but again there may be excemptions... someone NEW, without posts, but highly recommended by some fellow. Or even some kind of demo 10 day membership (to see if this member will really cintribute) + some limit to block those new members to rip off whole knowledge base in one day...

[simaving]

I think promotion seems the best way to make sure important info doesn't fall into the wrong hands

[EDC15]

Hi,

as moderator in a board with ~6000 members I think promotion ist the most worse idea.
It has shown, that there are lots of people who are only posting bullduckduckduckduck the whole day in order to get a higher 'rank'.

In my opinion, the money option would be worth a thought.

It would be a joke if people who post 100 times 'huh please help me I'm so silly' would get access and people who give 10 answers to such people wouldn't.

Best regards, Rainer

[turborabbit]

It has shown, that there are lots of people who are only posting bullduckduckduckduck the whole day in order to get a higher 'rank'.
====
That's correct. But I think HERE these people are quite easily trackable, and that's why I propose some voting/approval.

THE PROBLEM, THE REAL PROBLEM will be that if ALL GOOD GUYS will gather in CLOSED SECTION... will be there life outside at all? In public area? Or this will turn into marketplace?
-"Who can give me solution for X????"
-"Me, $100"
-"PM me"
-"I can help, send mail"

Ok, now we have 30-40 active users, but how new user can possibly gain promotion conditions.. talking by himself? or posting spam?

We should keep public section alive and running, and ALL 30-40 active users must not ignore it...

[admin]

We should keep public section alive and running, and ALL 30-40 active users must not ignore it...

That it true. The new section will be just for those cases that could not be discussed outside...

Moderators should be able to move threads "outside" the section....

[ecu_flash]

Hi,

as moderator in a board with ~6000 members I think promotion ist the most worse idea.
It has shown, that there are lots of people who are only posting bullduckduckduckduck the whole day in order to get a higher 'rank'.

In my opinion, the money option would be worth a thought.

It would be a joke if people who post 100 times 'huh please help me I'm so silly' would get access and people who give 10 answers to such people wouldn't.

Best regards, Rainer

+1

Also the number of days after registration should not be taken into account, it is an awful proofing tool.

I believe entering this section is also an 'ego' matter, but users really need to proove that they can help.

Personally, i canno't offer much as far as winols etc is concerned so I would accept it if I was not given access. For people who manage to gain access but are not able to offer help, you can always remove their access the same way it was given to them

[vwmike]

There are definitely some good points being made here. Perhaps you could just have a test of some sort =)

Pump tension is:

A - How tight the bolts are

B - How tight the timing belt is

C - The ECU output voltage to the quantity adjuster

D - None of the above

[CTW John]

You write a test then people just spend a week googling the answers...

[Philip]

I am not sure a test might be a little too much (plus we all know it is D=the worry as you realise you are out of fuel again ;) )
I think the members here are wise enough to see when people start whether they know what they are doing, or have buyed cheap tools and they ask which end to plug into the car!
I would not worry as yet. It will become clear eventually

[chippie]

It's hard to make a choice.
I think it's not right to look forthe number of postings.
Maybe it's pssible to check anywhere that the peole for this area must have an official licence of WinOls or CMD or .... ?

Regards,
Chippie

[CTW John]

but then you have people who have their own development software that is not used by anyone else, or professionals from manufacturers, or even enthusiasts who slove their own checksum's

I think maybe the moderators all approve case by case will be the only way everyone will be happy about who gets to see, OR maybe the group within already as a whole all need to approve additional members for it to work?

[chippie]

but then you have people who have their own development software that is not used by anyone else, or professionals from manufacturers, or even enthusiasts who slove their own checksum's

Yes, you are right, it was just a sugestion



I think maybe the moderators all approve case by case will be the only way everyone will be happy about who gets to see,


Maybe the best option.



OR maybe the group within already as a whole all need to approve additional members for it to work?

The more members you get in the mor discussion you will have. Maybe it's working but then only with a vote system?

Chippie

[vwmike]

I was just joking but I really have no idea how this should work. I'm sure whatever the admins and mods decide will be fair.

[CTW John]

Yes, you are right, it was just a sugestion



Maybe the best option.



The more members you get in the mor discussion you will have. Maybe it's working but then only with a vote system?

Chippie


oh yeah I'm only suggesting too :)

[turborabbit]

There are definitely some good points being made here. Perhaps you could just have a test of some sort =)

Pump tension is:

A - How tight the bolts are

B - How tight the timing belt is

C - The ECU output voltage to the quantity adjuster

D - None of the above
========
:lol:

[simaving]

in reply to edc15 saying 'promotion ist worst idea' who said anything about idiots who have post a thousand questions about fleabay tool probs or whatever,quantity of posts should be irrelevent,quality and usefulness is another matter......... and his suggestion about paying would only vet candidates financialy with no reflection on their competence...... i feel sure the moderators can differentiate between takers and users....

[Pits]

This poll is just like chiptuning, pick one and try it :P Still don't know what's most important for that area, but for sure we all would like to be in...

Let's see, i will wait a few more till i vote the poll

[CTW John]

in reply to edc15 saying 'promotion ist worst idea' who said anything about idiots who have post a thousand questions about fleabay tool probs or whatever,quantity of posts should be irrelevent,quality and usefulness is another matter......... and his suggestion about paying would only vet candidates financialy with no reflection on their competence...... i feel sure the moderators can differentiate between takers and users....


+1 and with everyone being able to vote fleabayer votes will reflect that too!
Maybe have an amateur area accessed on usage and a pro area accessed by knowledge, make sense?

[Stage-R]

It would be nice to mantain both areas alive and, use the one existent as a "selection firewall" to stop all the retards from getting the knowledge we fought so hard to learn during many years in a 30 second search.

For example hardware, software ---> normal area

specific tuning details, tech debates, etc ---> advanced users area


just a thought... like chiptuningforum but in english ffs !

[almyc]

In my opinion, we need to define a group of “trusted” not “advanced” people.

Group members:

- Their REAL personal details are known to admin.
- They have a professional relation with the tuning.
- They have a minimum number of days registered.

All the above are easy to be proved.

And in addition:

A yearly (the lengthier the better) subscription.

[EDC15]

- Their REAL personal details are known to admin.

IMHO a very important point I would not miss again if I would have the chance to...

[turborabbit]

ok, so what happens now?

[CTW John]

Waiting for more opinion, patience young Jedi ;)

[turborabbit]

Waiting for more opinion, patience young Jedi ;)
====
Yes, Master, as you say, Master ;)

[MarkD]

Waiting for more opinion, patience young Jedi ;)


I just read this thread today as I was away from the PC for a few days. The Poll was not open very long, hardly anyone got a chance to vote. Maybe you should re-open it?

I haven't got an idea yet what the best way to administer the advanced area is.

MarkD

[CTW John]

I just read this thread today as I was away from the PC for a few days. The Poll was not open very long, hardly anyone got a chance to vote. Maybe you should re-open it?

I haven't got an idea yet what the best way to administer the advanced area is.

MarkD

pole reopened ;)

[TCKwadraat]

I've just voted for "other" as I think the earlier suggested option of e.g. WinOLS registrationnumber would work fine. As for those who work with the more 'obscure' programs, i guess they would have to contact the administrator to gain access. If you use an official programlicense for identification/acceptance one looses the jokers/E-bay wannabee's.

As for me, i'm only working on Scania/Volvo and DAF trucks and some LandRover TD5 engines and my contributions to the forum are very limited. No only due to my probable limited knowledge of luxury cars but also due to my problems with writing in English. In case of an invitational system i would probably loose my right to read the interesting part of the forum. But then again, if you don't contribute much, you shouldn't expect much. And still I would be sorry if that happened.

Cheers, Hugo

[car-power]

Hi,

I know this discussion will not give any conclusion and i´m going to put my point of view.

If you rate the pole by post, most users i know dont say anything with value information.(users with 200 or 300 post and no idea of what chiptuning is)

A good point is to only let users to advanced area with original software licences, this way we put a lot of users that come here with cracked software looking for information.(since they dont have any kind of support)

Other good way of access to advanced are by payment, because most users think that chiptuning is all free, i dont know where they get this ideas, this way some of them was removed too.

Even with this restrictions i think that information should not be open, if someone want to know it should post the doubt and then it should come those who are willing to sell it or offer by PM, because if it´s free, in one year or two it have all the information needed for someone that does not understand a duckduckduckduck about chiptuning become a expert.(just get access to advanced area and in one month get the information that took me years and lots of money to get).

This is just my point of view, about those new guys that come here and want to tune they own car with Kwp2000 and winols cracked i will start deleting those post again, because everyday we see some guy that wants to become a PRO, i in few days i want to be President of my Country, let see if someone tell me how.

Best regards,

[admin]

and how can we validate every Winols license or other software license?

[simaving]

Which board/forum are we talking about?

[CTW John]

and how can we validate every Winols license or other software license?

Obviously we can't and there is more than one software for this like frieling, dimsport, alientech etc as wel as people using INCA.

I think the only way is on opinion of the others willing to share access to that area to their secrets.

[vwmike]

I'm starting to think invitation is the only way it's going to work. Many of you have brought up some good points and I think the only way anyone can be sure of the caliber of the people is if they know them personally. I know I don't know many of you but I probably know one of you which knows another and they know another, etc. So, all I'm saying is that so long as the mentality doesn't prohibit the addition of new people I see no reason why that couldn't be a successful avenue.

If the contributors to the advanced area are knowledgeable and have something to contribute then they will only bring more information to the table. It's only those who would take the information and run that you need to worry about.

[Pits]

In fact the only way to have a nice forum with nice companies being represented is to keep it cracked/cloned free... Admin you may ask them if they want to give support on this forum, and in some way cooperate in the process of chiptuners admission for the reserved area...


BTW: I'm off :)

[Stage-R]

Hi,

i in few days i want to be President of my Country, let see if someone tell me how.


Are you a good lier/cheater and know a lot of influent ppl ???

:D:D:D:D

LOOOOVED ur post man!

ffs don't release secrets to everyone.

+1 to getting tuning soft companys to verify members licenses

[Stage-R]

BTW

I voted few days ago without first knowing what advanced area was rofl

[CTW John]

And after this is set up....


You don't talk about fight club.
You do not talk about fight clubfight club, erm I'm mean the advanced area, and it may not even be set up or exist to anyone else or even in reality, if you get my jist... ;)

[vwmike]

Do you know Tyler Durden? I really need to speak to him....

[CTW John]

Do you know Tyler Durden? I really need to speak to him....


duckduckduckduck off with your sofa units and strine green stripe patterns, I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say let... lets evolve, let the chips fall where they may.

Do you think he was talking about PSOP or DIL's?

[vwmike]

I don't know but I've always had a soft spot for DIL's. PSOP's are so impersonal.

[CTW John]

Impersonal but alot less temperamental then DIL's! :)

[turborabbit]

lol :D:D:D

[Stage-R]

nerds tsss tsss

[vwmike]

nerds tsss tsss

No, that's the wrong tone....you're talkin' to my guy all wrong..... :)

[chippie]

and, already make a decision?

Regards,
Chippie

[admin]

I almost made a decision, I think it is going to be by invitation plus a very small subscription payment (5$/month). The payment is to keep users comited to posting and helping and not forget this special membership.

Invitation will be buy some users and moderators suggestion.

New users or low post users that think that could help will have to justify and give some kind of proof of the intentions..

One thing that is sure is that all conversation that could be outside this section should be kept outside.

What do you think?

[Pits]

I almost made a decision, I think it is going to be by invitation plus a very small subscription payment (5$/month). The payment is to keep users comited to posting and helping and not forget this special membership.

Invitation will be buy some users and moderators suggestion.

New users or low post users that think that could help will have to justify and give some kind of proof of the intentions..

One thing that is sure is that all conversation that could be outside this section should be kept outside.

What do you think?

It will be restrictive enough ;)

[chippie]

I almost made a decision, I think it is going to be by invitation plus a very small subscription payment (5$/month). The payment is to keep users comited to posting and helping and not forget this special membership.

Invitation will be buy some users and moderators suggestion.

New users or low post users that think that could help will have to justify and give some kind of proof of the intentions..

One thing that is sure is that all conversation that could be outside this section should be kept outside.

What do you think?

yes, looks good.

[roet]

Contribution can be higher i guess, it is a learning room wich can be paid good money for, with this knowledge other people learn the tricks of the trade and make money some day.
If each learning member pays for example 50-100 euro a month that money can be usefull for the forum, or be used as a discount for the advertisers (banners) who contribute and teach the less experienced users probably.

Just my 2 cents. I am willing to pay this money if the information/discussion is usefull anyway, a little help (not a complete education offcourse) when you (i) have (for example) no idea where the smoke-limiter or advance map is in certain file is very usefull and worth that money.

I like the idea anyway.

[admin]

learning room

the learning room will be other place. For that I have to make sure there are users that can be payed to teach others. I'm working on that too.

[MNBM]

Think the advanced area is one big trouble in the air.

[Pits]

I think that area is already working, when experienced tuners help each other via pm's, msn, and so on...

[ecu_flash]

Think the advanced area is one big trouble in the air.

Yeah, I am also still not able to see the use of it, since with private conversation all issues are resolved. Things that people want to keep private, they will keep no matter in which room you put them.

[KERMA]

IMO just go ahead and make an "advanced area" and simply don't announce it or mention it to anyone other than those you invite.

I for one would be happy to pay for such a service.

I also like the idea of requiring some sort of valid licensed tuning software and/or hardware as a kind of minimum credentials to be considered as a candidate for invitation.

Even better is the idea that the admin/mods should know the members either personally, by reputation, or through the forums, and have the contact details verified. This alone will be a significant filter that should keep out the casual lurkers and eBay types.

[MNBM]

You all will see in the advanced area will be holy duckduckduckduck only!

[davyrox]

I have serious doubts about this. It will be like chiptuningforum.com (i have full access), only invited people, little info and the info that will be given will only be passed on msn, e-mail or pm. At the end you will end up with a "only friends" and " laughing with less experianced people" forum. It will be ok in the beginning but at the end only 3 post of 1000 will be helpfull, respectfull and really concern the main idea of a forums like this and that is helping with problems concerning chiptuning.

Another thing:

What about the guy's that dont have software or only some cracked or demo software (to learn and stuff....), but with "legaly" purchased and licensed hardware, like optican, byteshooter, ...... Can they enter to?

Just my 0.02cent

[vwmike]

If it makes you feel any better the advanced area isn't really even being used.